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Socoder -> Off Topic -> Valve - Piston |
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| Tue, 08 Jan 2013, 17:29 | |
Jayenkai
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Depends wholly on the price, and given the tech company's usual price range of "about $999", I'm not sure it'll make a dent..
-=-=- ''Load, Next List!'' 
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| Tue, 08 Jan 2013, 17:29 | |
steve_ancell
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Full Steam Ahead!. Linkage
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| Wed, 09 Jan 2013, 02:20 | |
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Afr0 |
Boycotting! This is a cloud device - yuck!
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| Wed, 09 Jan 2013, 02:58 | |
rockford
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I'm not sold on the whole Cloud idea either. Too easy to lose everything you've either paid for or worked hard on. The other problem is being able to update it later - the cost of anything made specifically for a box that size (if anything ever is) will be double a normal desktop version. I do like the idea of playing pc games on a tv, but I just hate commercial pc gaming as it exists now. Installing and setting up the best possible config is a PITA. That's why I love retro, indie, handheld and console games - you just don't get any of that shit. I can see that this is a step in the right direction though. I just don't think that machines are far enough along to warrant this yet - ie, they still need updating (hardware and software) every few months to improve performance or even to do things that older systems can't. |
| Wed, 09 Jan 2013, 03:40 | |
shroom_monk
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What's wrong with the cloud stuff? If it's just using Steam, then surely you're less likely to use stuff you've worked hard on, because it backs up all your settings, saves, etc, and you can redownload your games as many times as you want? I do agree that the custom upgrading could be a bit iffy though, because presumably the upgrade parts will need to be custom built to fit in that small box, making cost an issue as you said. It'll be interesting to see where this goes, though. -=-=- A mushroom a day keeps the doctor away... Keep It Simple, Shroom! |
| Wed, 09 Jan 2013, 03:53 | |
Afr0
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If the games are downloaded, like on a regular PC, then it doesn't count as cloud. That's why I use Steam on the PC.
-=-=- Afr0 Games Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
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| Wed, 09 Jan 2013, 04:59 | |
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shroom_monk
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Ah, ok, perhaps I misunderstood then. What other cloud stuff does this do that isn't so good?
-=-=- A mushroom a day keeps the doctor away... Keep It Simple, Shroom! |
| Wed, 09 Jan 2013, 05:15 | |
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Afr0
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I don't know, the article doesn't really say. My point was, I should have clarified this, that if this device streams games from the cloud without downloading them, then I'm not buying it. Also, it would be nice if there was some kind of way to access the harddrive if games are downloaded... -=-=- Afr0 Games Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
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| Wed, 09 Jan 2013, 06:19 | |
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shroom_monk
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By the sounds of things, it's gonna boil down to being some kind of Linux box running Steam, optimised for running games, so I imagine in terms of running games, it'll function just like Steam. Given that, I suppose it would make sense if you could access the hard-drive? Even if it's not possible with the default configuration, if one of the selling points is that you can personally upgrade the hardware, I guess the hard-drive should be fairly physically accessible, so you could get stuff off it with another machine. -=-=- A mushroom a day keeps the doctor away... Keep It Simple, Shroom! |
| Wed, 09 Jan 2013, 07:00 | |
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Jayenkai
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They've also suggested that its possible (maybe even easy?) to install Windows on it, too, but I don't think that's the point of it. It's supposed to be PC-Console, so for those who don't bother to upgrade/install/etc, it oughta be simple to use, and work right out of the box. If it can't do that, and cheaply, then it's already failed. -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
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| Wed, 09 Jan 2013, 08:05 | |
9572AD
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Well, according to what Gabe said...exactly! There's going to be a Lite version that probably doesn't save anything and probably isn't very modifiable. There's going to be a standard version that will be standard and PC-like and you can tinker with - with the understanding that tinkering makes it non-standard and if that causes a problem it's on you. And there's going to be the possibility of Deluxe versions for manufacturers who want to add non-standard extra things to the standard version. Whatever extras these have may or may not be useful to you, but Valve won't be aiming anything at them. -=-=- All the raw, animal magnetism of a rutabaga.
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| Wed, 09 Jan 2013, 08:56 | |
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Afr0
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 What's wrong with the cloud stuff? Everything! I hate the very notion of cloud-based applications (and consoles even moreso!), because the cloud is a dream, a fantasy. It is the ultimate wet dream of people who want to control what (and how) content is delivered to customers. It might be easy to think that I'm a proponent of cloud-based systems because I like MMO gaming. But most MMO clients can be downloaded and installed (and the ones who can't aren't worth playing). That means that when the content provider stops providing the service, it can either be emulated, or the client can be rebuilt from the ground (like I'm doing with The Sims Online). Just look at something relatively "simple" like PlayMyCode.com; The whole idea is depending on Joe's consistent ability and willingness to provide the service. If he doesn't develop a VM that can run Quby apps on the desktop, then all games ever developed will vanish as soon as Joe isn't willing or able to host anymore. And yes, I realize that when MMO servers are shut down, it is because not enough people are playing to generate a profit, but that's completely besides the point. You pay for a client, you get the client, not a code that will provide you access to the game through a website or custom application. A good example of what I'm talking about is that EA have proven themselves unusually generous when it comes to The Sims Online players (allthough in actual fact it probably comes down to luck or laziness more than anything else); For reasons unknown, they are still providing access to the installer for the client, and the server hosting the installer's files is still running. This simply would not have happened, or even been possible, if The Sims Online was a completely cloud based application! You could argue that most people aren't going to be bothered with emulating or rebuilding a service after it has been shut down, but that's also besides the point; Services like Onlive are basically saying to customers "we'll sell you a car!" while in actual fact all they're getting is a 10$ driving simulator. -=-=- Afr0 Games Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
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| Wed, 09 Jan 2013, 09:14 | |
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Jayenkai
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When you use a Cloud service, you're putting your trust in the company to keep it working. I'm not a cloud fan, especially when it's offered for free, because I fully expect monetization to fuck up the service, eventually! DD's yet to monetize PMC, but I expect adverts to pop up eventually, and perhaps a premium service once I have far too many games on his server. .. About 20 games ago!! Apple currently offer the PhotoStream thing for free, but they also offer pay-for additional data chunks. This is a nice compromise, and you can see things working nicely in the future, as those who need more will happily pay for it. Do I trust Apple to keep my data going? Yeah, sure! I also trust them to host and sell my games, so I'd be a twatty hypocrit if I didn't then trust them with photos of my cat!! And some of my save games. And some my music. And a couple of my videos, too. ...but my code? No! My source code stays on my hard drive. That's what my hard drive is there for, and that's not really the point of the Piston. The Piston is to play games, and I think we can trust Valve to keep things up and running. -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
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| Wed, 09 Jan 2013, 09:25 | |
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Afr0
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The unfortunate thing about the cloud-craze is that people are getting lazy. They don't want to have to install, or - heck - even download things anymore. It's what enables people like Joe to create services like PlayMyCode.com. I don't have anything against him personally, or even against the site per say (as long as he keeps it running!), but I think it is a really bad omen for what's about to come. And, to be more to the point in this discussion, I think it is really great that Valve are offering multiple versions of their console! I'm not sure what made people lazy to begin with, but I know that people like those behind Onlive are taking advantage of it! And, on a very personal level, I feel like services like PlayMyCode are perpetuating that laziness. I do believe that Joe made the service to ease things for developers, but what he might not have considered is that he's also perpetuating laziness on the part of users and/or customers! And yes, I realize that there's something thrilling about "write once, play everywhere", but isn't that what we have Java and C++ for?! In fact, I get annoyed when people "point out" that C# "isn't" a mutiplatorm language. Thank the maker for Mono - it is projects like that one that will hopefully mean that we can one day say goodbye to cloud-based services! This isn't just about perpetually lazy consumers and/or users, this is also about perpetually lazy-ass developers who can't be bothered to write a few more lines of code to ensure that people can play it on their PC. That's why I'm porting Project Dollhouse to Monogame right now, so that the codebase eventually can be moved completely to Monogame. That way, I'm not depending on Microsoft to support XNA in future versions of Windows, and I know that people can play on any OS! In fact, the *only* good thing I could ever see coming from cloud-based services is... communism! Yes, I said it! That, or at least more state ownership. Let's face it, governments are always going to be easier to trust to store your stuff for the rest of your life than private corporations, simply because they have more money and are generally more stable (at least over longer periods of time). -=-=- Afr0 Games Project Dollhouse on Github - Please fork!
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| Wed, 09 Jan 2013, 10:32 | |
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Jayenkai
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Cloud isn't that bad, you just have to be wary of what companies you're relying upon. Stick to the good folks, and you'll be fine. -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
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| Wed, 09 Jan 2013, 10:53 | |
Dabz
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I can understand cloud computing from, say, a business sense, all your software and data is backed up somewhere and you can access it from anyway, and if your computer goes tits up, well, champion, great, it's all on the cloud so it doesnt matter as much, no harm done, obviously your better off paying for such a privilege with a reputable company, as you will know it's as safe as houses. But for personal computing, not a fan, if storage was expensive, then, maybe, but it's not, you can get a 2TB external harddrive, for what... £70 or something, cheaper if you look. I've never looked, but, what would a decent network raid setup cost, where you could hook it up to your network, mirror the harddrives and backup whatever onto that... My guess, without looking, £100 or something... Totally an utterly makes cloud based computer in the home (as in, remotely) pointless IMO! Dabz -=-=- Intel Core i5 6400 2.7GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 (8GB), 8Gig DDR4 RAM, 256GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Windows 10 64bit
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| Wed, 09 Jan 2013, 12:20 | |
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dna |
I'm not sold on the whole Cloud idea either. Too easy to lose everything you've either paid for or worked hard on I agree and I've read that there are other security/privacy issues went using that. -=-=- DNA |
| Wed, 09 Jan 2013, 16:55 | |
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rockford
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The Cloud is the future - just ask Apple, Microsoft and Google... 
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