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Socoder -> Off Topic -> TheRevillsPaving |
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| Sat, 30 Apr 2016, 23:42 | |
therevillsgames
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Really need to fix our paving, found a big crack near the foundation! Linkage
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| Sat, 30 Apr 2016, 23:42 | |
Dabz
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I think you need to get someone to do that properly... That "kerb", isnt actually a kerb at all... No wonder it's spreading out.. Basically, you either butt the block up against the wall flat like the rest of them, fill the joints per usual with kiln dried sand, whack them with a whacker plate, which locks it all together (Which you cannot really do since theres a foundation in the way) Or if you need to kerb it, you use these (Or similar):-  Or some fancy pin kerbs. And concrete them in so they dont move, then block up to them as above. Anything else and, well... Your yard happens, which, just going by the photo's, I can instantly tell that's a pretty horrendous job someone has done there! If I was coming to fix that, I would come off the wall a little from your foundation, plonk said kerbs in (Or pin kerbs if there's not much room, but put plenty of concrete behind it) with concrete, then reinstate the paving blocks, then, between the wall and the kerb, I'd fill with gravel, like this:-  Obviously, it'll not be that big, lol, but shows the idea, it'll be as solid as a rock and will never spread again. Dont forget, with block paving, the idea is to lock the whole lot in so nothing can move, it's all bedded on sand, and sand shifts, especially when wet... Here's a little pic to show the general idea of how it should be done:-  Dabz -=-=- Intel Core i5 6400 2.7GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 (8GB), 8Gig DDR4 RAM, 256GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Windows 10 64bit
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| Sun, 01 May 2016, 16:09 | |
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therevillsgames
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Thanks Dabz... now to use Google Translate to understand what you just said 
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| Sat, 14 May 2016, 19:53 | |
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therevillsgames
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Hey Dabz, would you redo the paving or go with concrete?
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| Sun, 15 May 2016, 01:10 | |
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Dabz
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 Hey Dabz, would you redo the paving or go with concrete?  If the blocks are okay, I'd go with redoing it... I'd wash the blocks while they are still down:- You could do this yourself you know, it's not hard, just a bit of elbow grease is all that's needed... www.marshalls.co.uk/homeowners/inspire-me/articles/how-to-clean-block-paving-4188 That will spruce them up ready to be relaid, then I'd lift them, stack 'em nicely, they shouldnt take too much in getting up with a pick. The reason I would clean them first is that, if you lift them and get it all finished, then clean them, your likely to blow out all the sand in the joints and knack some of the new bed of sand underneath... Pretty commony sense stuff really. Moving on, I would probably put a new bed down with new fresh sand if it were my paving, so, I would shovel the lot up and skip it. Tools:- 1) String lines 2) Metal pins for said string lines when marking out or gauging levels, about 18" or so long should do, but do be careful when banging them in near drainage or where any services come out of your house. 3) Various metal poles of different length, 1" electrical steel conduit is ideal. 4) A spirit level 5) A few bits of 3x2 of various lenths to pull sand level 6) A whacker plate (Hire) 7) A block paving guillotine (Hire) Prep work: Look at your paving now and decide where kerbs should go, this is important and will go a long way in extending the lifetime of your paving, the setup you have now is proper cowboy builder setup. Like I mentioned in a past, where that foundation is, you could actually chisel that back to the brick, but the first course of bricks is higher then your paving, so, I'd be inclined to put kerbs there (I wouldnt recommend raising the paving wholesale without having a proper look)... If you can and there's room, come off the wall slightly, even 6", then put a kerb line that runs along the length of the wall... Use either proper block paving kerb blocks, or pin kerbs (Either grey or decorative). To lay these is simple, set up your heights and lines, and bed the kerbs in concrete, when you've done that, put some concrete behind the kerbs as a bit of reinforcement... Here's a pic of the setup:- www.pavingexpert.com/images/bitmac/kerb_justLaid.jpg Remember, when working out heights, you want the top of the kerb line to be above the bottom of that first course of bricks on the wall, as when you fill the back in with gravel, it will hide the foundation. When it comes to the grass line, theres a few things I would do... Normally, people bed normal blocks on the edge with sand and cement to make a kerb, like this:- kingfisher.scene7.com/is/image/Kingfisher/Paving_Laypavingblocks_242_01?wid=260&hei=190 But, I hate that setup personally, and there's one reason why... That kerb line will be prone to traffic with people running on/off the lawn, the mower banging against them and the blocks get knocked, become loose and end up wibbly wobbly as muck gets washed underneath between the cement and block. If it were me, I'd put some ruddy good kerb blocks down level with the lawn like so:- perigordvacance.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8345192c169e2017ee850d6af970d-500wi ^See how meaty them are, them bad boys are going nowhere (Note: Or even pin kerbs) If you have wavey edges, like arcs against the lawn or whereever, this may seem like a bit of a chew, but, doing arcs is piss easy... Setup the pins and lines like so, and use your level off the line:- www.pavingexpert.com/images/edgings/edgconc5.gif And eye the curve[s] in... You can use all the maths and trig you want, but, when it comes to this, the eye truely knows what looks right and what doesnt, may take a little jiggle, but it's never failed me. For any gaps when your plotting the blocks around, just point them up with a 3 sand 1 cement mix with a morter dye that resembles the colour of the blocks... Do a test sample mix first and let it dry to see how much dye is needed. One last thing, where possible, where ever any blocks just butt up to something, say, a wall, mark the height of the blocks on the wall with a marker pen for later, because your paving will be going down at the same level (presumably) so, makes sense. Okay, you've got the kerb lines done where needed... Now, to lay the blocks, again, piss easy... Now, just to help explain the setup... Check this picture:- www.selandscapeconstruction.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Screeding.jpg So, going off that picture, you can see the fella is pulling the sand back flat with a bit of timber (screeding), and he has a metal pole as a screeding rail. First off, set up your heights and lines on either side of where you will be screeding:- www.bradstone.com/global/guides-and-advice/block-paving/step-2-block-paving.jpg When your lines are set accordingly, place bedding sand on the area and roughly level out with a shovel with the space between the lines and the top of the bedding sand higher then the depth of the block. When you've done that, get the whacker plate, and whack the tits out of the sand:- pavingexpert.com/images/screed/screeding_compact.jpg This compresses it ready for screeding... So, with that done, you then place your screeding rails at a specific height along the lines, basically, you just tap and measure, tap and measure until you have the correct depth all along the rails... To get the height of the bed, just quickly measure the depth of the bed in relation to the thickness of the block... If distance between the line and ground, is say, 70mm, and your block is 40mm thick, that means you need a 30mm bed, BUT, we will actually be whacking it again when the blocks are down, so, we need an extra 5mm on the height of the bed to consolidate the extra whacking, which means, when your measuring down to your screed rails, instead of 40mm between the line and the bed, we need a distance of 35mm to make up for that extra 5mm surplus due to whackage! If the distance is more from the line to the ground then the 70mm mentioned, we need to just add some more bedding sand to the height, as a guide, if the depth was 90mm, I would use maybe 9mm extra, thus, closing the height from the line to the top of the screed rail to 31mm. This is just a guide, a lot of aggregates have different compression rates believe it or not, and I havent a clue if you guys get your sand from Summer Bay or what. Also not, take notice of falls on the paving as well, you want your paving to either fall into drains or away from the house, either/or, so when your setting out, just keep an eye on where water will be going and adjust heights to suit... There's no hard fast rule, general common sense, if you have a drain over to the left, and your paving runs to the right, you have back fall, and that's no good. Okay, so, your screed rails are set, now, it's time to get on your knees and drag that sand, again, just take your lengths of 3x2 or whatever your using and drag that along the screed rails like so:- www.crystalclearideas.co.uk/images/marshalls/block-paving/marshalls-tegula-driveway/screed-the-sand.jpg When you've dragged a section out, remove the rails by sliding them out, then, go around the other side and, well... Start relaying the blocks:- www.pavingexpert.com/images/blocks/lay_blocks.jpg As you go, just drop a little sand in where the screed rails were and flatten level with a trowel. When your laying the blocks, just watch out for creepage, if your pattern is starting to look funny and not, right... Just jiggle the blocks until your eye says "Yeah, that's good"... Leave any cuts up against the kerbs or walls until the end, just keep on chucking them full blocks in until you've done the area you were planning. When the area is down, then, do the cuts... This is pretty simple, just measure each cut and chop them with the block paving guillotine... It's a smashing tool that one [pardon the pun] and it doesnt have beat using a noisey stihlsaw chucking loads of dust about... Worth it's weight in gold. Right, final step... Once the blocks are down and you've got the cuts in... Dump a bag (or a few) of kiln dried sand onto your paving, give it a good brush about to get it in all the joints, then, to complete... Whack the knackers out of the lot:- www.pavingexpert.com/images/blocks/compact_sand.jpg Brush up any surplus sand... And voila... Done!!!  If you cannot get it finished laying the blocks in a day, which, is reasonable due to it being a bit of DIY, make sure that where your work finishes that day, put a shutter (A piece of wood will do with a few blocks to keep it there) up against the new stuff you've just done just to hold everything in... Just in case it rains and decides to move that edge... If it does rain, then when you continue the work, just relay the first foot of blocks again on that edge. Also, if there's unfinished work and you drop kiln dried sand down, keep the whacker away from the edge you'll be working on later, by all means still fill the joints, but dont whack it... I'd probably keep it about 1m away or something. I reckon you'll save over £2000 doing it yourself, not to be sniffed at! For for the record... Concrete is crap and not pretty, it's industrial, I mean, it's fine for a brick yard, but a nice back garden, mmmmmmmm, maybe in 1973, not 2016 though... And dont go and fork out for that decorative concrete shite either, that looks like paving... Yeah, it looks okay when first down, but once that starts cracking, which concrete will... It looks terrible! Dabz -=-=- Intel Core i5 6400 2.7GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 (8GB), 8Gig DDR4 RAM, 256GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Windows 10 64bit
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| Sun, 15 May 2016, 16:08 | |
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therevillsgames
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Wow! Thanks Dabz... now only if my back was dodgy and that I could do 3 hours of gardening without feeling like shit the next day (and the day after that) I would so do it myself Maybe it'll be cheaper to ship you over, pay for your flights and put you up for a few days  Whats really annoying is that we have had 4 paving companies come in and measure... but only 1 has got back with a proper quote ($6k), another did a verbal estimate quote ($8k)... the other two havent got back (and its been over a week now).
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| Sun, 15 May 2016, 22:10 | |
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Dabz
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Maybe it'll be cheaper to ship you over, pay for your flights and put you up for a few days I'm game!  lolThough, you'll have to give me a few weeks to save mind, after your paving is done I'll have to do a bit of dodging about the place! Whats really annoying is that we have had 4 paving companies come in and measure... but only 1 has got back with a proper quote ($6k), another did a verbal estimate quote ($8k)... the other two havent got back (and its been over a week now). Typical builders really... The other two mustn't want it thats all. Ah, the good old "estimate", I really hate that setup, basically what it means is "We're not going to work anything out, but, pluck a value out of thin air, and if we do it quick, we're quids in, if it takes longer, we'll charge you". <--- That's usually the angle. Shame your knackered with your back though, you would probably have had fun doing it, nowt better then a bit of ralaxing "me man, man build" *thump chest* going off! Dabz -=-=- Intel Core i5 6400 2.7GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 (8GB), 8Gig DDR4 RAM, 256GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Windows 10 64bit
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| Sun, 15 May 2016, 22:21 | |
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Dabz
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On a releated note:- https://onthetoolsshop.com/blogs/news/117327557-builder-sneaks-a-swear-word-into-driveway lol BrillDabz Edit: And just for the record... It is fake... Brill, but fake, it was written by the Sunday Sport!
-=-=- Intel Core i5 6400 2.7GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 (8GB), 8Gig DDR4 RAM, 256GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Windows 10 64bit
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| Mon, 16 May 2016, 02:42 | |
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GfK |
I wish we'd paid Dabz to do our plastering, since the builders who came in to do it made a right fucking mess of the job. It's not even been finished a year yet and already got new cracks in the ceilings, and the plaster's fell off where they forgot to tape over some of the screw heads. If the fucker had spent more time on the job and less time "vaping" and gloating about how much he was getting paid for his 5-hour days, he might have made a better job of it. Builders, eh? :/ |
| Mon, 16 May 2016, 03:52 | |
rockford
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Yeah, I've just had platerers (for the last two weeks, doing various rooms)in a we've noticed problems already too. We need to clone Dabz and make each one local to us
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| Mon, 16 May 2016, 04:32 | |
Jayenkai
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DabzDirect...?
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| Mon, 16 May 2016, 04:59 | |
rockford
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LOL. I LIKE IT!!!!!!
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| Mon, 16 May 2016, 09:58 | |
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Dabz
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DabzDirect Snazzy! HeheheDoing stuff right was how I was taught... Ian Henderson, the plasterer who taught me all them years ago said to me on my first day "I'll show you how to do stuff, and if you do it wrong, you'll do it again until its right", this even stemmed to mixing stuff... First day he was "This is how I like my skimming, anything else and you'll be knocking it up till its right"... All well and good, but if it was too stiff or too sloppy, you dont half get sick of scrapping it off the spot board back into the bucket and knocking it up further... Especially when your a scrawny little midget fresh out of school and using one of these fucking things:- What a long URL! He was the same with browning, bonding, dot and dab and render... When rendering, sometimes it was a carry (2 buckets of the stuff, sometimes up a ladder), get to the board, tip it, he'd poke it... Too stiff, back in the bucket, back down the ladder, back to the mixer, back in the buckets, back up the ladder, back to the board... And obviously that stretched to putting the guff on the wall as well... If I made an arse of it, he'd either make me pull it off and do it again, or reskim it! You sharp learn! By the end of my apprentice I could knock a gauging of finishing plaster up (one and a half bags) in about 2 minutes, perfect consistency everytime! I use a mixing drill now, which when I think, was the beginning of my belly! I also used to like the fanny on jobs, we were working on an executive style "Fine and country" property in Guisborough when I worked at Newton Moor, a conversion from an old building, which had large stone arches that were the windows, obviously the old ones were swapped for double glazing, the stone was this style (Though more gothic style):- www.ilamstone.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/arch1.jpg We were boarding it out inside, and I spied the slight chamfer around the edge of the stone (Which you can see in the picture), so, I went outside, measured the chamfer, then, while boarding the reveals, I put the chamfer in as well, so it looked like a mirror image if you get me... It was an absolute pig to do, especially to bead for the skimming, but fuck me, when it was finished, it looked brilliant, the clients loved it... Never got a thank you or kiss my arse off the boss of the company, no doubt, he would've took all the glory for the idea... But inside, I was like "Yeah... That's good" I've done tons more like that, working on a building in Sunderland, there was some proper meaty coving in the building, I'm not joking when I say it was three foot from the ceiling down, and two foot from the wall across. It was bespoke coving, built right in there and then from god knows when... Proper old fashioned build, they nailed timbers into the joints of the brick work, then lat'ed said timbers (Like some stud walls are made in old houses), then they obviously built the coving from that base... Very clever! Gorgeous stuff, anyway, the upstairs in the building was getting turned into luxury flats, downstairs was offices, and smack bang in the middle of the lot was a hallway, long bugger. Now, this coving was everywhere, and pretty damaged, they dropped the ceilings down in the flats and offices, but in the hallway, they wanted to keep the height, and the coving... But quite a bit of the coving was knackered, dinted, chipped, hanging off, it was a mess. So I said to the gaffer "Do you want me to have a go fixing that?", he asked if I could do it, I was like "Why aye"... He told me to go for it. I cut out proper heavily damaged sections, and, to replace the sections, I cut out, carefully, any matching from the existing coving that was getting buried under the lowered ceilings, obviously having to match up the pattern... I was taking huge chods down, carefully, then sticking them back up in the hallway with dot and dab and screws... Repairing smaller damage by hand... Took me a whole fortnight, and the result was epic! Once it was all painted, you would've never of knew... I was a little bit distraught to find mind, that, I saved the firm a fooooking fortune, I was taking home about 450 quid a week at the time, so, I got £900 for that repair... A firm put a price in to do it... I'm not jesting either... £60000 they wanted... SIXTY GRAND!!! But, to be fair, it was my own doing, I just fancied a go, lol... And, out there in sunny Sunderland, there's a hallway that looks magic, and people will look up at it and go "Wow"... And, it's good to know that was my doing! *Oh, and the ones that made the coving over 100 years ago, lol, cannot forget them*Dabz -=-=- Intel Core i5 6400 2.7GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 (8GB), 8Gig DDR4 RAM, 256GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Windows 10 64bit
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| Mon, 16 May 2016, 12:52 | |
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rockford
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Ahhhh, that warms the cockles of your heart stories like that do. Nice one Dabz. Fucking rip-off companies though. Bastards!
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| Tue, 17 May 2016, 17:29 | |
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therevillsgames
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We've just had more quotes in for the paving:
And from another company:
The last one is strange as new paving costs around $40sqm and we need 132sqm, so it should be over $5k extra!?!?!
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| Tue, 17 May 2016, 22:18 | |
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Dabz
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£10000 for a new back yard... Hahahahaha fook in hell man, that's serious that mind... I'm in the wrong game me! The last one is strange as new paving costs around $40sqm and we need 132sqm, so it should be over $5k extra!?!?! I'm just going to guess but they dont really want the work, and instead just banged in a high price anyway on the off chance they'll get it and if they do, well, it's bonus time. Out of the two, I'd probably be more inclined to go for the first one, even if it is slightly more expensive then the second stupid one (When it comes to 'with materials')... On the basis if the second one arent really fussed about winning the work (Going off them prices), once they've got it they may not be as fussed to come and chuck it down as sharp, you could easily end up a side project for them. I mean, I'm just guessing mind, they could be the best pavers on the continent... But, it's a mmmmmmmmmm from me. I will do a disclaimer mind... Since I can do a lot of stuff myself, I tend to think "christ" when I here prices... I even crap myself when I need to buy some plaster at BnQ if my builders merchant is shut, lol, so, I suppose it the prices you have is the going rate, well, I cannot argue really. Take laminating flooring, I've done tons of it for friends and family, for nowt, it's piss easy, more so now then when there was just glue shit and noone would pay the fortune for the locking gear, which is the norm nowadays... Anyway, I know people that charge £18m2+ to put that down, me, I think "How do they dare?", lol! Dabz -=-=- Intel Core i5 6400 2.7GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 (8GB), 8Gig DDR4 RAM, 256GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Windows 10 64bit
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| Wed, 18 May 2016, 01:55 | |
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therevillsgames
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We thought so the same, they mustnt want the job... it took them a week and a half to get the quotes and that was after we nudged them! So we've had 4 quotes in total for the relaying the existing paying, ranging from $6k to $19k!!!! We are getting two more companies out as those last ones in my opinion are null and void!!
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| Fri, 30 Sep 2016, 20:20 | |
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therevillsgames
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Back to looking into this since its getting closer to Summer... We are thinking of 220x220 with a 220x110 border, in stretcher bond at 45 degrees... Is this a decent pattern? it looks more modern than our current 220x110 herringbone style.
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| Fri, 30 Sep 2016, 20:35 | |
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Dabz
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I think that's a good move... For me, herringbone is just a throw back from wooden floors in old buildings from years gone by, and obviously it's spilled outside... Don't get me wrong, when you walk into an old building and it has a herringbone pattern in wood, in the settings around it, it looks lovely. But modern building is typically clean lines, not complicated, so yeah, about as modern as you can get really, you see a lot of inside tiled floors done in a 45 degree stretcher bond in new builds. Dabz -=-=- Intel Core i5 6400 2.7GHz, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 (8GB), 8Gig DDR4 RAM, 256GB SSD, 1TB HDD, Windows 10 64bit
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| Tue, 04 Oct 2016, 13:27 | |
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therevillsgames
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Thanks for your feedback Dabz! G'ah! The guy we decided on cant do it now for some reason... getting sick of tradies pulling out.
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| Fri, 23 Dec 2016, 20:46 | |
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therevillsgames
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And its finished! Still got to fix up some plants around the back as the paving guys totally killed them!
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| Fri, 23 Dec 2016, 23:44 | |
Dabz
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Looks lovely! Dabz
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| Sat, 24 Dec 2016, 03:11 | |
Jayenkai
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\O/yeay\o/! Looks great. Shame about the plants, though. -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
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| Mon, 26 Dec 2016, 02:16 | |
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therevillsgames
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So glad its done... really dont like traddies (sorry Dabz!) At the end of it all, they wanted an extra $1,000 as they mis-calucated the size (twice!) and had to get more pavers and wanted to charge us for the labour... plus they damaged our in-pipe so they had to get a plumber out... which they wanted us to pay half for... and to top it off, they charged us for some crappy border work which they offered to do and stupid us thought it was included in the original price, as they didnt tell us a price for it. Oh and dust was everywhere in our garage which we had to clean out... But its done now
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| Mon, 26 Dec 2016, 03:58 | |
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GfK |
Would have told em to either do it for the agreed price, or pack up and piss off.
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