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Socoder -> Blitz -> BlitzSDK |
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| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 02:32 | |
svrman
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(Deploys anti-egging shields) I know, I know but a press release came out 3minutes ago and I was there! Since most of us are part of the blitz community - a shy, secluded and disowned part of it anyway - it is in our interest to keep up with the goings on over at the BB. (besides, CW twitched a bit and it was front page news!) So here we have it, I wish to start the thread for all BSDK observations from afar in SoCoder world. Some of you may : rolleyes :, some of you may be confuzzled, global warming may be a lie but it must be done.  Blitz3D SDK Released! New Zealand software developers Blitz Research Ltd have today released the Blitz3D Software Development Kit for Windows game developers. The package consists of a runtime library of over 300 commands that simplify the process of creating video games with computer languages such as Microsoft's Visual Studio Express C# or C++ editions, the free DevC++ environment from Bloodshed or alternatively languages such as PureBasic and Blitz Research's own next generation BASIC compiler BlitzMax. Extensive documentation based on the recently published Blitz3D Programming Manual is included covering the wealth of graphics, geometry, media and input commands available in the Blitz3DSDK environment. With a wide range of file formats built in and an ever growing array of tools, plug-ins, and success stories Blitz Research looks forward to fostering continued growth of the independent game development community with their industry proven technology and support. About Blitz Research Blitz Research Limited is owned and operated in New Zealand by Mark Sibly, a provider of programming tools to friends and industry for more than 25 years. About Blitz3D Blitz3D has been the chosen development environment for a growing user-base of imagination rich game developers since its initial release in 2001.  |edit| Update! Pricing announced! https://blitzbasic.com/Products/blitz3dsdk.php |edit| -=-=- BlitzRSS script back online! 
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| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 02:43 | |
JL235
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A very good move by Blitz Research Labs. Diversifying into other languages helps to broaden there fan-base. Such as people like myself who no longer program with Blitz Basic. Although I wouldn't ever buy it. I mainly only ever make 2d games, and Blitz3D's 2d capabilities are really quite poor. |
| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 05:32 | |
HoboBen
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Wow, as it'll work with DevC++ I'll have to try it as soon as (if!) they release a demo version. Yum, Blitz3D with C++ syntax.  But, yet, it's still an old DX7 engine. I know DX7 might be a good idea for old computers, but even my grandfather's old 64MB RAM machine had DX9 installed. I'd probably buy it if they modernised the engine a little. (On the condition that I magically win a $100 dollar lottery too  )
-=-=- blog | work | code | more code |
| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 05:55 | |
Jayenkai
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Kinda kills the whole point, though, doesn't it?
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| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 06:19 | |
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JL235
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That's partly the problem I have with it HoboBen, especially for 2d. The engine I made in Java which works by drawing directly to a Swing panel is faster then Blitz 2d drawing commands (kinda, tiny images are slightly faster, large images are slightly slower, but circles are up to 100 times faster), and it's only 1200 lines (including Java documentation) and has almost all of the important Blitz 2d commands (and one or two extras). Managed DirectX was also quite straightforward for performing 2d, which is hardware accelerated so it's just far faster. I could see it being quite easy to make a large and powerful 2d engine in that. There are also lots of free 3d engines out there which are more advanced. Blitz is really starting to get dated. I'd still say it's a good move as I'd presume it's been pretty easy to make and helps to keep the Blitz Max community happy for a little longer whilst they wait for Blitz Max 3d. |
| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 07:05 | |
power mousey
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bloodmoney for Mark's gxlib and BlitzMax game maker.  going the route of Dark Basic...with their DarKSDK or is it DarkGSDK or something. oh well...each each to their own *sigh!!* |
| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 07:49 | |
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f4ktor |
I think this was one of the best ideas that mark ever had. I might buy it, don't know it yet however.
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| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 08:26 | |
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power mousey
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eeeeyepp!!, Jay, I totally agree with you. We may disagree on things...but in this case I'm in a total definite 100 percent degrees with ya. *cough,cough: maybe Mark should hire on to DarkBasic. shudders the thought!! ughhhhh!!! yikes. Yet, with his great skills and experience he can come up with ahhhhhhh!!! Dark Blitz SDK.  utilizes the Blitz or BlitzMax engine to speed up, enhance, and bring both power and stability to Dark Basic Pro. *cough, cough!!* ha!! cheers power mousey |
| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 08:40 | |
caffeinekid
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I don't want to code in C/C++ it's just a chill out hobby for me.. so this is not something I'm interested in I'm afraid.
-=-=- www.tcksoft.co.uk www.retroremakes.com
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| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 11:12 | |
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svrman
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I already own B3D so I don't think I'd get it. Besides the fact that I could only manage BASIC programming was why blitz3d appealed to me in the first place. I'm with TCK - it's only a hobby and even if I was on a more serious path, I would consider the many, much more capable and modern engines available. @diablodevil Correct me if I'm wrong (Directed at those in the know) but I think I read in Mark's worklog that he's going a different direction working on a 3D game maker engine rather than a 3d module for blitzmax (that's if it is what you was referring to when you said blitzmax 3D). -=-=- BlitzRSS script back online!
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| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 11:36 | |
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power mousey
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hey srvman, unless Mark Sibly has changed his mind again... what DiablosDevil has said is incorrect. There will be no BlitzMax3d. Yet, there is an add-on called MiniB3D for BlitzMax. the ineptus and framework has changed for BlitzMx3d. Its going to be turned into the gxlib and a BlitzMax gamemaker. But don't just take my word for it. Read up and check out what I say. No matter how troubling, weird, unbelievable and bizzare too. Read up on his past few worklogs and also peoples' comments,opinions and actions-reactions over at the Blitz forum. And under 'General Discussion'. and hey!....for everybody too: whether or not you believe what I say or post. I'd rather you check up on what I say and do the research. Then, come to your own conclusions. True! |edit| yeah, you have read it. embarrassed..squeaks and runs back into mousey hole. whew!! |edit| cheers power mousey |
| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 12:42 | |
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f4ktor |
@mousey: Mark Sibly has already said that Max3D will be more than just a bunch of functions. I think he wants a complete game creation suite but that will take time. You also shouldn't compare this step to the DarkGame SDK for the following reasons: 1. Blitz3D is a reliable development tool, many games have been developed and distributed. DarkBasic Pro was very buggy for a long time and now that you could call it stable they're announcing their new X10 products for Vista. 2. Mark never released addons for Blitz3D, every update was free of charge and the rest is 3rd party. Mark doesn't get any money from Easy TOK, JV-ODE, etc. BRL doesn't even redistribute those. If you're using DarkBasic Pro you'll be charged for every extended feature and that's how TGC make money. 3. The B3D SDK is basically a DLL which can be used from virtually every language that can use DLLs (maybe even from Cobra ^^). The DarkGame SDK is Visual C++ only and it would need a huge amount of time and work to get it working with other languages. 4. If you buy the B3D SDK you can do anything you want: freeware games, indie games, commercial games, 3D applications etc. If you license the DarkGame SDK you have to decide wheter you want the freeware license or the commercial license. And you're not allowed to make editors, engine kits, etc. To sum it up: I think B3D is more stable, faster and more flexible than the DarkGame SDK. If you want to make some money with your products it's also not as expensive. And don't think DirectX 7 is a weakness. In the Indie business, DirectX 7 is a great feature, because it means more compatibility and thus a broader potential user/customer base. Btw: I got myself the B3D SDK because with the physic addons from filax/viper and the multithreading features of PureBasic this could be a wonderfull setup for indie developers.
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| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 13:15 | |
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power mousey
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feeling much better after my workout. unbelievable that I did it?? and with good form and adequate time to stretch. huh!?? anyway.... ahhhhhhh!!! true Sebe, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Especially about the DirectX 7. And you know I'm sure this gxlib and BlitzMax gamemaker that Mark will make, will be cool and top notch. Definitely, I'll take a good look at it. But, hey I was joking about a Dark Blitz SDK. But on the other hand....hmmmmmm it would indeed be a major improvement on Dark Basic Pro. and whoa dude, thank you for all that other information too. a lot I didn't know either. But now I'm a more enlightened mousey and with more power. True cheers power mousey |
| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 14:33 | |
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power mousey
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Sebe and others, I have been reading up more on this BlitzSDK. And true I have been joking around about how its like what Dark Basic SDK or GSDK thingie. Yet, this is what is going on. For people who are on a limited budget and are saving money...why spend $100 for Blitz 3d and then another $100 for this Blitz SDK?? heck for you C/C++/C# enthusiansts, use C# and XNA. Or perhaps some C/C++ language with 3dImpact. Or even the Dev C++ package and Allegro game library. oh well, each has their own goose and gander. its your choice. |
| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 15:16 | |
Jayenkai
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One has to wonder though.. What if Mark had've stuck to B3D and released B3d - DirectX9 edition, and we'd all gone ahead and paid for it. I mean, wouldn't that have just been, like 200* quicker, and have made him a stack of cash as well? The way I see it, he's doing all this work, and there's no point to it what-so-ever. Those of us who liked Blitz have by now picked either 3D or Max.. One or the other (or 2D!) Max isn't selling to the C++ crowd, and I see sod-all chance of "Yet another graphics engine" selling any better to the C++ crowd for the simple fact that they already have 1000s to choose from. He's just going to be selling the same damn thing to us lot again. I say, go back to 3D, build a Dx9 engine, add decent 2D stuff, then flog that as "New Improved BB" Less effort, more cash. Sorted. (Although I'm sure he's thought that through, but.. you know..) I wouldn't mind seeing "squeakyduck's" view on this, actually, since it seems that both BlitzSDK and Cobra's ION thingum will be aiming at the exact same set of... well, us lot! -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
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| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 15:23 | |
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power mousey
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what can I say? or add?? You said it and I agree, Jay. True. yeah, I like to hear Graham's say on all this. Hopefully, Cobra 3d will be out in a few weeks to at least a few months. However, this time I can and will patiently and politely wait...and not stir up trouble or controversy. I promise! cheers power mousey |
| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 17:39 | |
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f4ktor |
Why do you all think mark made a SDK out of B3D and starts to sell it? 1. Blitz3D is the most successful game programing language for Indies 2. It was doable in an acceptable amount of time 3. Many people that used Blitz3D switched to other languages because Blitz couldn't give them what they needed: deeper system access, object oriented programming, better IDEs or simply producing faster code. I bet more than 50% of those people were begging for something like that and if it's fair or not to sell it for full price to existing Blitz3D users: there is a market for the B3D SDK. Sure, DX9 would be cool but what is the main advantage over DX7? Speed? Not really. Anyone who has tried a full DX9 game on a DX9 capable card like the FX5200 (and there are plenty of them) will agree that while the cards are capable of running it, the performance is crap. Compatibility? For sure not! Why do you think Half-Life 2 was that successful? Or Guild Wars? Because they offer a DX7 renderpath. Without doubt they can be very good looking on a DX9+ GPU but there are DX9 capable cards that go back to DX8 or DX7. Why? Speed again. Let's face it: you are Indie developers. Your games are not for the DX9/DX10 crowd. You want your games to be successful. How will you achieve that? Compatibility, because if your potentional user base is broader, you will make more money or if your game is freeware: more downloads. If you want to make the next Gears of War you will need a lot of things: good artists, a good engine toolset and the people who will buy your game. Take RoboBlitz as an example. It's an Indie game made with the Unreal 3 engine. But how many people have bought it apart from the XBox 360 users? You don't have the budget to create games with SM3.0 shaders, high poly models and expensive engines. I agree: B3D SDK is just Blitz3D as an DLL. Yes, it's still DX7 without realtime shadows etc. But it's Blitz3D that can be used with your favourite language. Blitz3D that you can code YOUR way making it even easier to create games. With a proven content pipeline and new possibilities (and most Blitz3D users can't even use 100% of the Blitz3D features; how many Blitz3D games use bump mapping? Or bloom?). DX7 is not dead yet and won't be until it won't be supported by Windows anymore. Vista supports it, XP supports it, Win98 supports it and nearly all customer GPUs support it. And it's a good feeling that everyone will be able to play my games. I wish you much fun with the DX9 and OpenGL engines you're using. And all of your "customers" that will have problems getting your game to run.
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| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 17:57 | |
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Jayenkai
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But, at the end of the day, wouldn't you rather just have Blitz being updated?
-=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
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| Fri, 08 Jun 2007, 17:58 | |
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power mousey
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chill out Sebe. its cool. its your choice bro. go for it. besides....I thought you were waiting for both Cobra 3d and Nuclear Basic. And also getting into C# and XNA too. How is that going? I wonder if steve is still coding in C# and XNA too. I'm guilty as charged too...of switching here and there for various languages. Python, Dev C++ and Allegro, Blitz3d, Pure Basic IBasic-->Emergence Basic(same language, but different names and licensces )And also JustBasic, FreeBasic, Liberty Basic, other languages and engines too. Sometimes, and to be honest I don't know what I want in a programming language. Yet, I keep coming back to Blitz3d. And PureBasic as a secondary option too. I wonder...just wonder if...if Cobra3d and/or Nuclear Basic will fill the bill for me. In other words, as Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones sings: "Cant Get No Satisfaction" Satisfying stimulus and stimulants for the mind in coding and programming. Even this XGS 6502 I'm waiting of the end of the year. I hope it doesn't turn out to be another Hydra and the first XGS. Andre Lamothe changes his mind a lot in the design and prototyping. Look where I'm at with my Hydra and the first XGS....nowhere. Found out its not for me. hey, psst...pstt you wanna buy a Hydra? Seems like I'm waiting and awaiting for the next best thing...new and latest and greatest language,tool,engine, library, add-on. Well, for now, I'm sticking with Blitz3d. And I'm also going to gradually learn/relearn Pure Basic too. Still will check out both Nuclear Basic and Cobra 3d when they both come out. cheers bro power mousey |
| Sat, 09 Jun 2007, 00:54 | |
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JL235
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F4ktor 1. Blitz3D is the most successful game programming language for IndiesWhat's your basis for this? I'd highly disagree and say free languages are far more popular for Indie developers. Go into any large bookshop and you'll see at least dozens of books on game programming in a variety of languages (I got over a 1,000 when searching on Amazon.co.uk). In comparison, one or two of those books might mention Blitz (briefly) inside, such as 'The Complete Guide to Game Art and Design' (page 82). But about DirectX 7, I completely agree (partly). Half Life 2 uses DirectX 9, it just tests everything (as you should in a game) and so disables anything your card cannot do. That's why it has backwards compatibility, not because it uses DirectX 7. But too many beginners say they want DirectX 9 compatibility. The biggest factor that affects how good a game looks (and it's speed) are the people who made it, not the engine. In reality many of these people think greater DirectX 9 support will make their game for them. But with this in mind, there are some really quite basic things Blitz3D's 2d capabilities are missing. One example, in my new RTS is when I draw a ring to show the build time left on a building, which I wouldn't have a clue on how to do in Blitz. First I use a Polygon class when drawing, which allows me to simply store the points of the shape and Java will fill it for me. Secondly I want it to be transparent, so it's a simple case of setting the alpha component in the colour I use. Support for an alpha component is still the biggest thing I'd want to see added to Blitz, especially since such a small aspect can make such a big difference. But hardware acceleration for 2d graphics, that's what I really think is missing from the Blitz3D engine (and in reality it would be quite easy to implement in comparison to a whole 3d engine). It would also give a BIG increase in performance, which is important when I find drawing takes up the majority of processing time (around 82% in my RTS). |
| Sat, 09 Jun 2007, 06:34 | |
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Jayenkai
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Talk of SDK's, Cobra and Max made me give it all another go last night. I downloaded the Cobra and BMax demos, and after 10 or 20 mins of each I think I'm a fair bit happier with BMax, but it does have it's quirks. I mean, you can set the rotation and scale however you want, but then it stays like that for all drawing commands. Bit weird, but concievably useful, and it helps that it has a lot of familiar commands. (Although, there doesn't appear to be a version of String$(char,repeat)! ) But all of the above worries me, somewhat. I get the feeling I get so far into the coding, then come to the same dead end I did with Blitz2D. Whereas on the other hand, I know that Graham's currently in that early "I'll see what I can do" stage, so if I hit a roadblock, and need something, it's entirely possible that he can attempt to include it into the language. I mean, the chances of me actually needing that are slim, but it's a comforting thought. I'll spend the 30 day limit playing about with the languages, and see what I can come up with. -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
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| Sat, 09 Jun 2007, 06:50 | |
steve_ancell
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Blitz3D is a good language for games development but I also agree with Diablo, there are probably quite a few free languages out there that can pack a punch. |edit| I must also agree, Blitz is definately missing a few things. And I think Blitz should natavely support Pixel Alpha for transparency. |edit| |
| Sat, 09 Jun 2007, 09:56 | |
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f4ktor |
As an DX7 tool, Blitz3D and B3D SDK for sure are missing some things. Things like shader support (so the power of newer cards can't be used). But: when it comes to game distibution I have to decide between more features (DX9, DX10) or greater compatibility. And for certain products the highest possible compatibility is a must. That means: DX7 (*maybe* DX8). OpenGL is even worse than DX9. And I think Blitz should natavely support Pixel Alpha for transparency. Afaik this has been solved with the B3D SDK. Not sure but I think I've read something like that at the Blitzforums. @mousey: I'm currently writing an base engine for my game with an abstraction layer. It's planned that you can use either OpenGL (Leadwerks engine) or DX7 (B3D SDK), depending on the performance of your graphic card and what's supported.
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| Sat, 09 Jun 2007, 14:22 | |
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power mousey
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I read up on your post over at the Blitz forums and I understand what you were saying and some of your intentions. ughhh!! ignore em. True. Some of them are every knowledgeable and skillful but they come across as elitist snobs. I may not like nor wish to buy this B3DSDK. Cause I already have Blitz3d. Yet, this would be a good 3d engine for users of Pure Basic. I have told a good friend that I'm taking the plunge again in Cobra. Start out from scratch and learn and relearn the whole thing. The whole kit and kaboodle. Although, I wish the manual and docs were up to date and more informative. Yet, I agree with you that a lot of computers still run with DirectX versions of 7 to 9. Hey, seven of 9! haha!! From Star Trek Voyager. I think Nuclear Basic...as matthew has said... will adjust to your DirectX version from at least DirectX 7 up to the current one of 10. Correct me..if I'm wrong. It will check your current version and adjust accordingly. Also, you can change the version to run Nuclear Basic on your computer. I don't know if he is going to adapt Nuclear Basic to Vista. Maybe so, in the future. Yet, I'm staying with Windows XP. The other thing I want and need to say...you're right. Let people code and run with whatever language, tool, engine they want. For sure, there are going to be discussions, rants, opinions, commments, the pros and cons of anything and everything, bro. Thats just human nature. Yet, continue on and what you like, want and interested in. Despite what others say and think. Seriously bro. and hey...I was on the naysayers bandwagon for awhile concerning the new direction Mark is taking with BlitzMax 3d. But, now that gxlib and his gamemaking suite tool set sounds cool. He has done most of the work with Blitz3d and also BlitzMax anyway. Let him and its his choice to make a gamemaker of some sorts. I experienced a lot with similar situations and with the original XGS and the Hydra. With Andre Lamothe changing his designs, architectures and prototypes in the middle and near the end release of the product. I just hope that he stays with the same or similar consumer cubic.console.computer of the XGS II and also the XGS 6502. Rather than create another electronic/engineering hardware trainer kit like what the first XGS turned out to be and also the Hydra as well. I'll be more consumer aware and cautious. cheers power mousey |
| Sat, 09 Jun 2007, 18:28 | |
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dna |
Where is the website for this SDK?
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| Sat, 09 Jun 2007, 18:49 | |
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Jayenkai
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It's mentioned on the frontpage of the BB.com site! But, otherwise, here -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
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