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Socoder -> C/C++/C#/Other -> C# tutorial |
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| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 10:42 | |
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abc |
It is not a personal attack. I've known him, but what i wrote was programming related. |
| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 10:43 | |
Phoenix
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Yeah, that's what I thought too. |edit| In response to DD's reply |edit| |edit| Maybe it was programming related, but you know him, and obviously you don't like him. That's what started the whole debate. |edit| |
| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 10:45 | |
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abc |
The only personal thing i've wrote are: -he didn't learn C# in a day. he would not be capable of such thing. -he codes just to sell software. Nothing more. The other things I wrote could have been understand by everyone, as they are programming related. |
| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 11:05 | |
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abc |
However, among the other things, would you like to read about a thing he did against me? There are many, but as you say 'personal attack, personal attack', i would like to tell you why i hate him. https://www.criticalsecurity.net/index.php?showtopic=21217&hl= On this forum he asked for help (he didn't know how to do it, so, as a good lamer, he asked on a forum) to crack a friend of mine's website. The code he posted is mine, as there also is a mistake my friend did while coding his website. Other things.. I can tell you that he is a lamer. I've told him all what he currently know.. a few years ago. Then i've stopped as i had seen he was a lamer (he went everywhere telling he was the best coder..). From that time on, he didn't learned anything. But really, nothing! There are many other things, but you probably aren't interested in knowing those. Just to let you know. |
| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 11:22 | |
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Nolan |
 Also, I personally use C++, as I KNOW it is the best languages currently available.I don't like Java, but I know it is way better than C#. That is a fact.  Please explain to me, in your own words and not those of a website, what makes C++ the best language currently available. Also, in your own words, explain to me how Java is better than C#. I don't want any links to websites, because for every pro-Java website you can find, I can probably find a pro-C# website. -=-=- nolandc.com 
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| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 11:29 | |
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Phoenix
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I must've missed that post, fortunately. I'll just pretend I didn't see it.
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| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 11:32 | |
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abc |
C++ is the most complete language, and it is the best, expecially under *nix environments. C++ is fast and optimized. It really allows you to use 100% of your CPU. Of course i don't know *every* programming language out there, but lets think that it is probably the most used one, the language on which Linux is based (well, actually is C, but i'm expecially speaking about gcc), and the most used into the scientific field. I am not the only one saying it. Java is also widely used. Visual studio can be used to code windows applications, but you can't do much more. It is merged into software commerce, while Java and C++ (again, speaking of gcc) are the tools a coder with other purposes use. Personally i wouldn't work into the software commerce, as i code because i like it, not to sell something. I also code scientific applications. Gcc let you do this in a better way the other languages do. PS: what should i write describing how Java is bettern than C#? that is seen with benchmarks, and actually i have neither installed on my pc.. and i'm running Linux. |
| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 12:04 | |
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Nolan |
I am not the only one saying it. Oh, well then it must be true! /sarcasm C++ may be the most used language, but that is far different than being the best. Visual studio can be used to code windows applications, but you can't do much more.Visual Studio is an IDE, not a programming language. You can code anything that falls under your ability in Visual Studio. The form designer just simplifies things. Gcc let you do this in a better way the other languages do.Gcc isn't a programming language. It's a collection of compilers. what should i write describing how Java is bettern than C#? that is seen with benchmarksSpeed doesn't determine the value of a language. and actually i have neither installed on my pc If you don't use either language, then you're hardly qualified to take part in this discussion. -=-=- nolandc.com
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| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 12:11 | |
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abc |
"Oh, well they it must be true! /sarcasm C++ may be the most used language, but that is far different than being the best. " I didn't say 'all ones use it, so it is the best', i've just said that lacking of benchmarks (the good benchmarks would be on filo-c++ sites /this is a sarcam too..) "Visual Studio is an IDE, not a programming language. You can code anything that falls under your ability in Visual Studio. The form designer just simplifies things." i've used visual studio as a word to describe all the microsoft programming languages. "Gcc isn't a programming language. It's a collection of compilers." Yes, but basically it consists of C and C++. The other languages are interfaced to these 2. Here, i've referred to gcc as gcc-c and gcc-c++. "Speed doesn't determine the value of a language." Aahahahah. (PS: i wrote speed + OPTIMIZATION) So, what would determine a language's power? "If you don't use either language, then you're hardly qualified to take part in this discussion." It's not true. I am a programmer, and i am not limited to 1-2 languages. Actually i know fluently (taking out web development languages) blitzbasic/3d/max asm c c++, and i could code with many other languages (meaning, i know a lot more programming languages, but i don't use them often). But even if i only coded c++, i could have joined this discussion, too, as i've looked at those languages, as well, among with many other ones. Even thought i don't code with C#, i know the bit of the language it suffices to take part at this topic. |
| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 12:22 | |
JL235
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If you don't like him, that's you problem on that site. This is SoCoder, a different site. As far as I know he has done nothing wrong here. It shows a lot about you to follow someone across the internet and try to cause trouble for them. Regardless of what he has or has not done, he should be allowed to walk away and get on with his life. Now, on to the programming debate. According to the TIOBE index C++ is the 4th most popular programming language, Java is first. But as we all know; Ruby is the best language and that is only 10th. But language popularity proves nothing. Also by your own logic C# is better then Java. Remember that unlike Java, C# can use pointers and be used to write unsafe code. So C# is closer to C++ then Java, and if C++ is the best language, this means C# must be better then Java. Visual Studio can be used to code anything. Because Microsoft follow the question 'but will the dog eat the dog food?' they encourage all their employees to use only their products. So pick any MS product and it'll be written in Visual Studio. Windows, Office, compilers, even Visual Studio itself are all written in Visual Studio (although many internal tools and editors are also used, such as WinBag for debugging Windows). It's just it has tools and templates to help code application quicker and easier then from starting from scratch. There is even a C# research OS called Singularity. But does that mean the language is more powerful? I doubt it. Many large scientific applications, for example to model large weather systems, actually tend to use Fortran. Yes lots use C++, but lots also use something else. I'd like to present an interesting article I found linked to page on Wikipedia. It talks about Java in comparison to C++. The basis for their research was from a university paper benchmarking Java against C and Fortran for scientific applications. conclusion On Intel Pentium hardware, especially with Linux, the performance gap is small enough to be of little or no concern to programmers.But what really matters isn't speed. Speed is a factor, but it's not the most important. For a typical application it will come maybe 4th or 5th. Other factors are more important such as:
Then maybe speed comes next. For example would you rather use Office 95 or Office 2007? The first will be far faster but less features and a worse interface. With Java it will take less time to write good code, and typically in less code then with C++. If a loss in speed exists (as my program may run faster then C++) then I don't really care because to me my time is more important. Many bugs in programs and drivers also come because of a lack of checks in the code which safe languages like Java and C# offer as standard. For those reasons I think Java is a better language then C++. |
| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 12:55 | |
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abc |
"If you don't like him, that's you problem on that site. This is SoCoder, a different site. As far as I know he has done nothing wrong here. It shows a lot about you to follow someone across the internet and try to cause trouble for them. Regardless of what he has or has not done, he should be allowed to walk away and get on with his life." No. "Now, on to the programming debate. According to the TIOBE index C++ is the 4th most popular programming language, Java is first. But as we all know; Ruby is the best language and that is only 10th. But language popularity proves nothing." Was the ruby thing a sarcasm? .. The second is C, the first is Java. C# the 7th.. Something means. "It's just it has tools and templates to help code application quicker and easier then from starting from scratch. There is even a C# research OS called Singularity. But does that mean the language is more powerful? I doubt it." Yes, and there are millions oses coded with C and asm. I've personally coded an os with just asm and an os with asm mixed C. C can really do all.. (there are many oses written with c++, also) I don't know how many oses were developed using C#, but this is the first time i hear about one. I perfectly now that Fortan is used for scientific computing, but actually it is almost all related to parallel computing, not general science. Then, scuse me but i really have to laugh at the following quote: "But what really matters isn't speed. Speed is a factor, but it's not the most important. For a typical application it will come maybe 4th or 5th. Other factors are more important such as: Can you make the application? How long will it take to make the application. The design of the application. Writing bug-free maintainable code." Are you KIDDING? That makes me laugh, really. The language can not do much to improve user's speed in building apps, to design them and to write them bug-free (this, expecially, would be done by the DEBUGGER, not by the COMPILER). Speed and Optimization are the important things. Yes, if you code windows apps speed doesn't matter, and the os itself would slow down apps.. But for real programming speed is very important. "Then maybe speed comes next. For example would you rather use Office 95 or Office 2007? The first will be far faster but less features and a worse interface." I don't use office, i use OpenOffice.. The first was designed to run on older and slower platforms. A real program would always be fast, but obviously we can't talk about office (i wrote, a REAL program). "With Java it will take less time to write good code, and typically in less code then with C++. If a loss in speed exists (as my program may run faster then C++) then I don't really care because to me my time is more important. Many bugs in programs and drivers also come because of a lack of checks in the code which safe languages like Java and C# offer as standard. For those reasons I think Java is a better language then C++." we are not discussing Java vs C++. In my opinion c++ is better. The "it will take less time to write good code" is a stupid idea. If you use C++ for a long time you learn to code thousands of lines of code in a day. My time is very important to me, but i can build complex graphical and other complex apps in half an hour. I can also code programming languages and operating systems in a few days, starting from scratch.. |
| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 12:56 | |
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abc |
@phoenix: i didn't read you post. "I must've missed that post, fortunately. I'll just pretend I didn't see it." Would you like me to repost it, so you'll be able to see it? /sarcasm! |
| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 12:58 | |
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mike_g |
It dosent matter which language you use. If you bang on them buttons long enough you're bound to end up right in the end.... Oneday 
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| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 13:42 | |
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Phoenix
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If it takes you just a few days to write a programming language in C++ (which I find extremely hard to believe), it would take half the time in Java/C# if you're equally proficient in those languages as you are in C++. They newer languages were designed decades after C++, to remove the pitfalls and quirks of C++. Like Nolan said, you are hardly qualified to be in this debate if you don't understand what advantages these languages have over C++. Speed and optimization rarely means anything with today's hardware, and it's been pointed out many times before in this thread: C++ is not the fastest language in every aspect, Java (for example) beats C++ in many areas speed-wise. But for real programming speed is very important.Real programming? Please define what you mean by real programming. I consider any form of programming real programming, and if I'm allowed to interpret your statement that means that speed is important for all programs. Including Minesweeper. Including Windows Media Player. Including Counter strike. Now that's hardly the case, sure, it's important that it runs at a reasonable speed, but that can be accomplished with almost any language. |
| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 14:17 | |
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hyruleknight |
i consider real programming anything that involves typing, math and not dependent on a drag and drop designing system completely(like RPGmaker) speed is important but outside of gaming it is not the big defining factor in picking a language. in most cases with consoles asm is picked over C++ to do speed intensive tasks. also saying that a coding language that is based off of an older language is just crappier version is like saying a rolls royce is just a copy of the model T with stuff tacked on the only real advantages C++ has over C# and java is an edge in speed and that pretty much every coder knows it or at least familiar with the syntax through other mainstream languages if you want to get into which language is best by speed only i suggest you look at something like brainf*ck then. i don't think you will want to be programming in something like that once you look at it's syntax C++ is just so widespread that it keeps getting used, like windows is. -=-=- i like green haired girls... |
| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 14:46 | |
shroom_monk
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I have no experience in any form of C, although some experience with Java, so I don't think I'm qualified to comment on either. But I will state my opinion on the usefulness of all languages. A good language is a language that will complete the task well. Therefore, different languages are good at different things. For example, you wouldn't use Javascript to make a first-person shooter; instead you might use Blitz or C++. A good language is one that is easy to work with, and to form into what you want it to do, better than anything else. That's my opinion. -=-=- A mushroom a day keeps the doctor away... Keep It Simple, Shroom! |
| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 14:48 | |
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Phoenix
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Wise words, Shroom I completely agree with you; you should choose the language that fits the task you need it for.
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| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 14:56 | |
Jayenkai
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FFS, you get pulled away from the net for a day, and look what happens. Anarchy. Last time I'm saying this... No more "My language>your language" crap. Use what you're comfortable with, to get the best done that you can, within a reasonable amount of time. ingenium17 asked for a tutorial, not a lecture. And, can we by now assume that people can decide whether they want a "Type it all in" IDE vs a "Click it all GUI maker" IDE themselves? -=-=- ''Load, Next List!''
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| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 16:19 | |
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ingenium1 |
Jayenkai FFS, you get pulled away from the net for a day, and look what happens.Anarchy. I just logged in... -_-... Can I understand what the hell is happening here? I asked for a tutorial not for a flame war. I want to thanks Phoenix, DiablosDevil, mikeg and shroom_monk. You are great friends. -=-=- Roger Federer is go(o)d. But he is not alone. Just relax... sometimes there's no need to argue.
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| Mon, 13 Aug 2007, 16:43 | |
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TheMadProff |
I agree with shroom, and also its up to you which language is best, if you can work with one language well, use that language, because thats best for you. If someone else prefers to use another language, thats fine too! @abc - whats the matter with you, why have you come here to annoy people. It doesn't matter what language is best for you. Also, accusing someone of only copying is incredibly harsh, and you seem to have no evidence for it. Please don't make personal attacks on people, thats what it is, don't deny it. On a last point, C# can't be bad and probably isn't 'copied from java' as C# is used to write windows programs, and was probably used to write java. @everyone else - thanks for the links, I'm thinking about taking up something like that, so I can do more windows (and Mac) programming (applications instead of games). -=-=- ''It works, but I'm not sure why it works...'' |
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